Talk:War table
Two things: First, I'm unclear as to how to add additional rows in the tables, so I haven't made any additions to the page yet. If someone could explain how, that'd be appreciated. Second, I think it'd be a good idea to add a column giving the prerequisite for a war table mission to show up(if there are any). For example, the Red Jenny quests require Sera to be a companion, and "Deal with the Relatives of the Trevelyans" is a human-only War table mission(elves get one called "Contact Clan Levellan"). I can make these edits myself if there's no objections, but I'll need to get an explanation on how to add a column to the tables, as well. Thank you. --Ashenendymion4 (talk) 06:20, December 4, 2014 (UTC) :The table is custom rather than from a template, which is why I dont think it's so easy to add rows. I'll add a bunch of random empty rows. Best way to add rows would be to edit the page, then edit Source, you'll see a lot of | lines and a |- line, just copy all of those and paste them below (if you see |-, |, |, |, |-, you'd copy the 3 | and the last |-) which should add the rows and columns. I'll go ahead and also add the extra column (I'm pretty new to the game, didn't nkow there were prereqs :)..) (KHShadowrunner (talk) 13:02, December 4, 2014 (UTC)) :: Thank you. If I find it's too difficult(I'm new to editing wikis, but I've read this one since DAO), I'll just wait for someone to add new rows.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 20:55, December 4, 2014 (UTC) As someone has begun to try and do - anyone have any suggestions on how to handle spoilers in terms of when missions become available? Would giving mission names be too much of a spoiler or are they considered safe? (KHShadowrunner (talk) 13:16, December 4, 2014 (UTC)) :Nice job starting with the missions. There's however one thing I'm wondering about, and that is the time required to complete it. As you know, the recruited agents affect the mission completion time for respective advisor. So are these times that you currently put in, the default times, ie. the longest possible it takes to complete? :And while I'm here, a second question - do we use only "missions" to describe these events, or is "operations" also okay? Ingame it is "new operations are unlocked", yet at the War Table you see "missions" and "scouting". Kewpies (talk) 13:40, December 4, 2014 (UTC) ::Per your second question, should we be including Scouting operations on this page, or do those go elsewhere? For instance, I've just unlocked the "Red Templars on the Storm Coast" scouting missions which gives access to the cut off section of the Storm Coast, but I'm unsure whether that should be listed here or not. Maybe a section at the top/bottom specifically for Scouting missions, so that they can have their own template seperate from Operations?Eunoshin (talk) 22:39, December 7, 2014 (UTC) ::I'm only putting the times I see, and I know that for some of them (if not all of them) they are modified by agents. That said - anyone can edit the time for max, I'd just have to restart to do so and that would take a good chunk of time. (when I finish this playthrough, perhaps I'll edit them). In regards to operations, as long as it is a prereq, I'd go ahead and put it. We can always just change the column name to Prereqs and that'll encompass everything. (KHShadowrunner (talk) 13:56, December 4, 2014 (UTC)) ::I'm editing the page in a moment, and I intend to add a note to the top indicating that the completion times on the page should be without agents. But since it's going to take a while to go through the game with zero agents, if agents are affecting the time, I think it should just be noted that those are adjusted times with X many agents are affecting it.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 20:55, December 4, 2014 (UTC) : I think it's going to be unavoidable to put spoilers on here in order to be accurate, so I think we should be ok putting the mission names even if they're spoilers. -- 19:42, December 4, 2014 (UTC) Mission timers I've stumbled upon some information we may find useful. The timers for the missions operate independently of time put into the game, even when that particular file is not loaded. For example, Josephine takes 45 minutes to perform Gather Coin, any save made after that will tick down the mission time, even if it's not your active file. Saving outside the Haven War Room immediately after starting the operation, reloading that save after 15 minutes showed that Josephine only had 30 minutes to go. When I reloaded from prior to starting the mission and sent Cullen, the same scenario played out. Cullen takes 60 minutes, but 10 minutes later he had 50 minutes left, even after reloading. Then, I went back to the Josephine file and found that another 10 minutes had been deducted from her time, even though the playthrough has technically diverged into two different states. I'll update you when I finish my "Application not running" test." 03:26, December 8, 2014 (UTC) : No, you're right. It's pretty obvious when you start running missions that take longer than 30 minutes, and you log out of the game, only to log back in and be given 1-3 messages about operations being completed. Otherwise, pulling 24 hours missions (there's at least one) would get kind of ridiculous.Eunoshin (talk) 03:38, December 8, 2014 (UTC) UPDATE: The timer continues to run even when the PS4 is turned off and unplugged. Not sure how it's technically possible, but this is definitely useful for missions like Tyrrda's weapon. I think we should include these mechanics in the intro section. Agreed anyone? 04:39, December 8, 2014 (UTC) : I'm on the Xbox One and the timer definitely still counts down while I've got the system off. -- 05:32, December 8, 2014 (UTC) ::Sounds like an admin's seal of approval. :) 06:09, December 8, 2014 (UTC) : The timer associates itself with the system time. If you change the time of the system to 3-4 hours later, the 3-4 hours will pass with the time of the mission, regardless of whether or not that actually happened. If you change the system time to 10 minutes after you saved the game, then when only 10 minutes will have passed on the time remaining for the mission. Even if it's really 3 days later. Most consoles that connect to the internet, though, will automatically correct the date/time upon startup. That's why the timer "continues" while the system is off/unplugged. --Ashenendymion4 (talk) 02:56, December 9, 2014 (UTC) ::I...thought so. At the very least we can use this mechanic to quickly gather details on operations, but I fear putting this on the front page will just encourage using it as an exploit. 06:25, December 9, 2014 (UTC) ::To further this, rolling back the clock actually increases the time requirement. Ha ha stupid me. :D 07:01, December 9, 2014 (UTC) The article was recently changed from "The times presented here are without Agents, unless otherwise indicated." to "The times presented here may vary slightly than what is presented in your own game due to each individual's unique game play." I'm unclear as to the reasoning behind the change. Yes, the times will vary based on each unique game, but if the wiki don't specify the tables contain a time unmodified by agents, I fail to see a reason to even include the time to completion in the tables at all. After all, people would be far more likely to complain that a time on the Wiki is less than what they're seeing in the game, than if it's more... Or am I alone in this? --Ashenendymion4 (talk) 04:59, December 9, 2014 (UTC) : I agree. There needs to be some context for the times listed, otherwise there's not really a point to them. -- 05:08, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :I completely agree with you. I just so happen to find myself at a 3/4/3 split on agents, so I have the modifiers memorized in order to convert backwards to full length (except on weird non-quarter-hour increments). I would prefer the old way it was prefaced, by saying these were the unmodified times. Eunoshin (talk) 05:10, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Pre-Skyhold missions I didn't complete Part II of the "Secrets of Andraste" mission chain, and I couldn't find an option for it when I relocated (it was replaced by the 'searching Haven' chain). Can anyone confirm that? And when exactly does Part III begin? 04:49, December 8, 2014 (UTC) :I didn't check the Cult of Andraste mission-line to see if any can be done after moving into Skyhold. That said, Part 3(Upon the Waking Sea) didn't appear until after I reached Level 4 in Inquisition Influence. Since part 1 and 2 are located around Haven, it'd make some sense that they can't be completed after moving, if they aren't showing up. Presumably, though, part three should appear if part 2 is done. --Ashenendymion4 (talk) 02:56, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Yeah, I saw the Level 4 note after I wrote this. But considering how difficult it is to raise your Influence pre-Skyhold (at 24 hours in I only got up to Level 5), I can't imagine Part III has to be done before the relocation. 04:48, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :No, it doesn't have to be done prior to relocation... But I thought the purpose of having a Haven table was to include all missions that can be available before relocation, rather than just the missions that are only available there. If it's the latter, most of those missions need to be moved.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 04:51, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :Agreed, I think it's better to go with the former. If it carries over to Skyhold, the player can see it plainly on that War Map. If not, we'll have the note for it. 06:20, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Also, the "Investigate Serault" and "Utilize the Grey Warden Treaties" missions 'can' be done even after the re-location. I'll go ahead and remove those notations. 06:37, December 8, 2014 (UTC) Race Specific Missions Section I did not roll a Quinari Inquisitor, so I may be mistaken. However, was the "Contact with the Valo-Kas Mercenaries" operation added at the bottom of the page merely the equivalent to "Deal with the Relatives of the Trevelyans" and "Contact Clan Lavellan" for the other origins? If so, then I would get rid of this section and merge it into the Haven - Ferelden section. Eunoshin (talk) 05:14, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :I think it is the equivalent to the Human/Dalish missions... But since I haven't rolled my Qunari Inquisitor yet(I'm doing that after I finish my Dalish playthrough), I'm not going to change it on my own, on the off chance that there's something special about it.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 05:30, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :Doubtful, if it's anything like the others, it's a warmup operation in Haven with a followup in Skyhold. I've been tripping over it all night with the edits and would rather it go away entirely. 06:57, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Scouting Missions and Repeatable Missions Eunoshin asked this earlier, but I believe it deserves it's own section. Should we have a table specifically dedicated to scouting missions -- the missions that have only one purpose/reward: area/quest unlocks in the specific region(usually, but not always, started by planting a marker in said region)? I think such a table should exist. If only to separate them from the other missions that actually offer item/gold/influence rewards. Thoughts?--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 05:56, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Additionally, I think there should probably be an added table that holds only the repeatable missions. The gather coin ones, gather materials(for each region), and the ones obtained through securing the Keeps in Crestwood, Western Approach and (I forget the third area).--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 05:56, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Access to Inquisitor's Bedroom Prerequisite A couple of operations were added with the Prerequisite condition of "Access to Inquisitor's Bedroom". Thinking back to when I first gained access to Skyhold, I know that there were a bunch of ruins, then when I talked with Solas and we had a conversation while the Inquisitor is dreaming, I woke up in the bedroom. Upon leaving the bedroom, I found that the first set of renovations to Skyhold were complete (less rubble all over the floor, repairs had started, etc.) I would have thought that this change would also occur if you were to use the world map to travel to a different region and then come back to Skyhold. Anyone know if this is the case, so tha the prerequisite isn't that you enter the bedroom, but that Skyhold begins the first set of renovations? Eunoshin (talk) 13:13, December 9, 2014 (UTC) :I added that. And you're right, the first set of renovations is the prerequisite(which occurs the moment you return to Skyhold from somewhere or into the Inquisitor's Bedroom via Solas or Josephine interactions). But I figured that some people may interpret "first set of renovations" as needing to upgrade one of the three sections of Skyhold, rather than just "scaffolding in the main hall". Thus the general "access to bedroom".--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 15:54, December 9, 2014 (UTC) New Category and development of War Table Quests I'd like to propose we create a unique category for War Table quests and also just for clarity, i strongly think we should create individual articles for war table quests rather than relying entirely on the war table to accommodate all the information. - 12:20, December 10, 2014 (UTC) :I think it's more appropriate if we do it at a later time though. At the moment, the war table allows us to look up and fill in the missing info quicker than going into individual articles. Weisswolf (talk) 21:19, December 10, 2014 (UTC) :I agree with the original poster and with the others in this discussion who think we should eventually add individual war table quest pages. Although it may be too early to start that process now, there are a couple of quests in particular whose details will be really useful to players already, such as "Investigate Hunter Fell." It's a logic puzzle, but after you've gotten past the first stage, there's no way to recover the clues without loading up an old save and running it again. It caught me (and other folks in the forums) off guard. So I'm doing the helpful thing and putting together a page with all the details for people who want to solve the puzzle, spoiler-free, instead of being handed the answer. (talk) 11:29, December 14, 2014 (UTC) ::I've created new topics Investigate Hunter Fell, Continue Investigation, and Identify Venatori Agent to cover this logic puzzle. They use a modified version of the standard Quest template. (talk) 23:30, December 14, 2014 (UTC) Summaries Maybe we should add quest descriptions. What does anyone else think?--Observer Supreme 01:17, December 12, 2014 (UTC) :I don't really see summaries of each mission working on the War Table page. The War Table page, in my mind, should just be the basics - Requirements, duration, rewards, and special circumstances. Not to mention that the tables, as they appear now, don't look like they'll fit a sixth column without serious appearance issues. At least when I look at it. I think mission summaries(or just copy/paste text from each mission preview) would probably be better served if one creates a page for each individual mission.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 01:35, December 12, 2014 (UTC) ::Okay.--Observer Supreme 01:44, December 12, 2014 (UTC) ::: Adding another column isn't really difficult. As other's have pointed out though, when I created them, I just didn't see it as pertinent information. Eventually all of them should have a unique page with all of the details of them, including all of the given statements by the commanders and all of the responses for ultimate lols. Buuut that's down the road. For now it's more of a "I really dont want to have to navigate between 4 different pages and hope I find my entry - and oh that entry is not quite accurate" Need confirmation Discovered a new (to me) operation "Secure More Lyrium for the Templars." Requires the Underworld Knowledge perk and the proper dialogue choice, "Not now. They need lyrium." The perk adds a similar dialogue choice for In Hushed Whispers, "We'll need lyrium. I can help," but no new operation. I was fully expecting a "Secure More Lyrium for the Mages" (or something similar) operation. I tested after making mages allies and conscripts. It's bothering me that the dialogue option exists for both quests but only has a practical effect for one. So if people could be on the lookout, try it out for themselves just in case I'm missing something, that would be nice. --TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 04:06, December 18, 2014 (UTC) Got another. The "Investigate the Strange Chalk Markings" operation disappears when Leliana completes an operation. I did one of the instant DLC operations with her, Red Hart, and the little black piece vanished from the table, although the yellow marker for it was still pulsing. Backed out of the war room, and immediately reentered and it was gone completely. So my first thought was, ok, maybe it's a bug related to the DLC. Loaded a save and tried doing the same instant DLC operations with Cullen and Josie and it never vanished. So, I put Leliana on a short operation, and when she finished, the Chalk operation disappeared again. I've also noticed that the Chalk operation always pops up after Leliana finishes an operation. So, here's my theory: Chalk pops up after Leliana completes, I dunno, 2-3 operations. And it goes away if she completes even one more. Get to checking, people. --TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 04:41, December 18, 2014 (UTC) Hard in Hightown: Unsavory Parallels Josephine is not locked for this (PC), but the outcome is the same as leliana. --Ra1n (talk) 13:06, December 18, 2014 (UTC) :You're right. Corrected the issue on the page. Should be accurate now.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 17:09, December 19, 2014 (UTC) Missing operation: "Smash" (First time using this so not sure how to do this, if anything is done wrong please edit.) The war table operation "smash" in not contained in this wiki article. This operation likely requires the inquisitor to be a Tempest(Rogue specialization) to be active, as the operation giver is Kihm, the Tempest trainer. Another requirement seems to be a high level of influence, likely 10 or more. :I'm currently playing through as a rogue, so I'll see about nailing this down. --TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 23:00, December 20, 2014 (UTC) : I had this mission on one of my playthroughs. I chose Cullen for the task since he was the quickest. It came back with 10 Masterwork Pyrophite as reward. -- (talk) 08:50, December 27, 2014 (UTC) watcher in the wings watcher in the wings Leliana - send agents to investigate: 5.5hrs Cullen - send guards to protect the cathedral: 6.5hrs Josie - n/a The Chantry Remains Can somebody check Josephines Choice, i could have sworn that Cassandra "sligthly disapproved" on completion, but I'm a Mage (PC) --Ra1n (talk) 14:57, December 22, 2014 (UTC) :I was very methodical about that one when I saw it was significantly different... I used a Female Elf Mage. Josephine resulted in approval on six different reloads, with the other two options always resulting in "slightly disapproves". The reason Cassandra seems to approve is because Josephine's choice seems to respect the sovereignty of the Chantry, while Leliana takes more, unsavory, actions, and Cullen sends in troops. That said, I intend to go through each of these missions again with a Qunari(female warrior) to see if any results change based on the Inquisitor's make-up. But I likely won't get around to that until the new year. --Ashenendymion4 (talk) 15:22, December 22, 2014 (UTC) You are correct, it was definatly not the war table mission --Ra1n (talk) 18:39, December 22, 2014 (UTC) Ben-Hassrath Mission Sequence For "Stop Venetori Fire Ship" mission, someone recently added that Josephine fails to stop the fire ship... This is contradictory to what I had achieved in my own playthrough, and I'm wanting to "fix" it. I went Josephine for "Failed Assassination Attempt Inquiry", Cullen for "Follow Venetori Assassins", and Josephine for "Stop Venetori Fire Ship", and the Arls managed to successfully stop the Fire Ship from burning Denerim(the text was distinctly different from Leliana's "Denerim is on Fire" text, and the text included that the Fire Ship was stopped). So I'm curious as to how it was achieved that Josephine fails. Could the Ben-Hassrath mission lines be like the Grey Warden mission line? In which if you fail to choose the "lower casualties" options(or choose a "higher casualties" option), you will run out of Grey Wardens? If so, then even Leliana may succeed in stopping the Fire Ship depending on the options taken before then. Perhaps this(and the Tracking the Spies sequence as well) should be looked into before they are edited further.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 18:31, December 27, 2014 (UTC) Grand Cleric Iona Mission The last Haven/Orlais mission is called Grand Cleric Iona. After having played through the Haven section for a third time, I have yet to see this mission appear(I have yet to see it appear at all in any playthrough). So, I'm curious as to what it's mission requirements are, as there are none listed at the moment. I can only assume the mission requires a choice in Dragon Age Keep in order for it to appear, but I have no idea what it would be.--Ashenendymion4 (talk) 18:25, December 29, 2014 (UTC)